The type of tears in the toilet paper shown in the photo of the cat are different then those shown in the video of the dog, thus they are from different rolls of toilet paper and from different crime scenes. But before implicating the cat as the one who caused one the crimes, the toilet paper needs to have forensic analysis done of upon it to see if it shows clear evidence of mutilation by cat claws (and or cat paws) and if it has cat paw prints on it. If it does have cat paw prints then paw prints must be made of the cat to see if there is a match. Furthermore if the police choose to arrest the cat as a suspect, the Miranda rights must be read to the cat. If the legal case goes to a court then the jury must be of the cat's peers. If no suitable cats (who are capable of understanding the arguments and evidence presented in the court) are available, then the following types of humans must be jurors to serve as peers of the cat . 1) A person who believes that cats are people too and entitled to human rights. 2) A person who is an animal rights activist. 3) A cat lover.
Disillusioned JW
JoinedPosts by Disillusioned JW
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156
Remembering Rutherford
by Sea Breeze inhe seems to me to be the angriest and most ill-tempered of all the wt presidents, especially after his stint in prison and failed prophecies.. “regarding his misguided statements as to what we could expect in 1925, he [rutherford] once confessed to us at bethel, “i made an ass of myself.”” watchtower 1984 oct 1 p.24.
rutherford died at beth sarim on january 8, 1942, at the age of 72.
[220] cause of death was...carcinoma of the rectum..."[21] .
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Converted Greek Philosopher Explains Christianity in 125 AD
by Sea Breeze ini ran across a pretty early treatise.
we were all taught that "real" christianity was lost to history and was only restored once russell and then rutherford restored it so that the wt could be appointed as god's "mouthpiece".
but, aristides wrote to the emperor hadrian and gave a pretty good synopsis of core christian belief in 125 ad.
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Disillusioned JW
Correction: In my prior post where I said "sounded so quote to a summary" I should have said "sounded so much like a summary". By "If it is true ..." I meant "If Christianity is true ...".
Ding, that is a good point you made.
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Converted Greek Philosopher Explains Christianity in 125 AD
by Sea Breeze ini ran across a pretty early treatise.
we were all taught that "real" christianity was lost to history and was only restored once russell and then rutherford restored it so that the wt could be appointed as god's "mouthpiece".
but, aristides wrote to the emperor hadrian and gave a pretty good synopsis of core christian belief in 125 ad.
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Disillusioned JW
Thanks fulltimestudent. When I read Apology of Aristides after I began reading this topic thread, it seemed to me that the Apology of Aristides sounded 'too good to be true'. The quotes about Christianity sounded so quote to a summary of the biblical gospel accounts for something claimed to have been written in the early second century C.E. It reminded me of the Christian interpolation about Jesus Christ into the book by Josephus. Christianity has a history of making pious forgeries and other pious frauds. Why is that? If it is true why would it need to do such in order to promote Christianity? I read, in a book by the Jewish scholar named Hugh J. Schonfield, that during the intertestamental period the Hellenistic Jews made pious frauds to promote Judaism.
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My Update
by James Jack ini just turned 62 and celebrated my first birthday at a local restaurant.
nothing exotic, just draft beer and a burger.
i've been using my spare time to make my community a better place to visit.
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Disillusioned JW
James Jack there are churches (at least in my locality), including ones which are called Bible churches which claim to be nondenominational, which use a modern English translation of the Bible. Those translations used include the NIV, NASB, and NKJV.
I invite to consider reading the book called Nailed: Ten Christian Myths That Show Jesus Never Existed at All, though I haven't read that particular atheistic book.
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FOLLOW the MONEY : Pastor Russell makes it rain
by Terry inpastor russell: follow the money.
charles t. russell, age of 13, joined the congregational church (dumped presbyterian).. he went (like girl scouts are sent out with cookies to sell) door to door to raise money for the church.. russell hated fundraising.
he had to ask poor people to part with their money.
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Disillusioned JW
Or instead of them going to local churches, maybe it is time for them to become atheists and philosophical naturalists instead. See https://www.amazon.com/Nailed-Christian-Myths-Jesus-Existed/dp/0557709911 .
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Converted Greek Philosopher Explains Christianity in 125 AD
by Sea Breeze ini ran across a pretty early treatise.
we were all taught that "real" christianity was lost to history and was only restored once russell and then rutherford restored it so that the wt could be appointed as god's "mouthpiece".
but, aristides wrote to the emperor hadrian and gave a pretty good synopsis of core christian belief in 125 ad.
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Disillusioned JW
Sea Breeze, I was asking for your source of the Apol. 2 (namely what Aristides wrote to the Emperor Hadrian), not your source for the quotes of Ignatius. Though I see numbers at the end of your quotes of Ignatius, I don't see numbers in your first post at the end of the quote of what Aristides wrote to the Emperor Hadrian. I do however see a link to a book on Amazon called Christianity at the Crossroads: How the Second Century Shaped the Future of the Church. Is that your source? If it is, which manuscript did that source use for the translation? There are ancient manuscripts in at least two languages of the text and thus one of those manuscripts is likely less accurate than the other. [Update: I now see you made a post in which you provided the link of https://www.michaeljkruger.com/one-of-the-earliest-and-clearest-summaries-of-early-christian-beliefs/ as the source for the quote of what Aristides wrote to the Emperor Hadrian. Thanks, however I still don't know which manuscript was used for the translation quoted from by the author of that book.]
The translation posted by Terry says that Jesus was "was pierced by the Jews" but according to the Bible Jesus was pierced by the Romans (by the Romans nailing him to the stauros), though at the urging of some of the Jews, and according to the Gospel (accredited to) John a Roman soldier pierced Jesus by a sword. If Aristides really said that Jesus was pierced by the Jews then either that statement of his was incorrect (perhaps to avoid angering the Roman emperor), or the gospel accounts in the Bible are inaccurate in that matter, or both accounts are wrong (for example maybe Jesus never even actually existed - see https://www.amazon.com/Nailed-Christian-Myths-Jesus-Existed/dp/0557709911 for example). Either way there is a problem in using that specific translation of the text of "THE APOLOGY OF ARISTIDES " to support your argument.
Terry, what is your source for the English translation of the full text of "THE APOLOGY OF ARISTIDES"? Is it from the book called Christianity at the Crossroads: How the Second Century Shaped the Future of the Church?
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156
Remembering Rutherford
by Sea Breeze inhe seems to me to be the angriest and most ill-tempered of all the wt presidents, especially after his stint in prison and failed prophecies.. “regarding his misguided statements as to what we could expect in 1925, he [rutherford] once confessed to us at bethel, “i made an ass of myself.”” watchtower 1984 oct 1 p.24.
rutherford died at beth sarim on january 8, 1942, at the age of 72.
[220] cause of death was...carcinoma of the rectum..."[21] .
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Disillusioned JW
minimus, I have a confession to make to you. I don't want to ever have to be a juror. I don't want to risk making the mistake of convicting an innocent person, or of declaring a guilty person innocent. If I did end up as a juror I very probably would have a very hard time making a decision. When I first received a notice saying I was preliminarily selected to be a juror, I wrote a letter trying to get excused from jury duty. Fortunately the case was settled out of court (or my potential jury duty was postponed to another case). I didn't start getting jury summons notices until after I became a registered voter. See what happens when JWs (and former JWs) disobey the Governing Body? Fortunately all of the jury cases, that I received notices to serve jury duty for, have been settled out of court.
You nailed it, that is, you nailed me. But did you nail me to a cross or a stake? I'm not sure, since it is so hard to decide. To be safe I will just say it was to a staurous. (By the way the book mentioned at https://www.amazon.com/Nailed-Christian-Myths-Jesus-Existed/dp/0557709911 probably is a good book to read.)
pistolpete, it is very possible that the cat was framed. It would be very easy for someone who hates the cat to have torn up the roll of toilet paper, then placed it in front of the cat, and then made the photograph. Just saying.
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156
Remembering Rutherford
by Sea Breeze inhe seems to me to be the angriest and most ill-tempered of all the wt presidents, especially after his stint in prison and failed prophecies.. “regarding his misguided statements as to what we could expect in 1925, he [rutherford] once confessed to us at bethel, “i made an ass of myself.”” watchtower 1984 oct 1 p.24.
rutherford died at beth sarim on january 8, 1942, at the age of 72.
[220] cause of death was...carcinoma of the rectum..."[21] .
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Disillusioned JW
minimus, when I said I need to "do more reading about the matter" I primarily had in mind the reading of the sources referred to in this message thread. Thus far I have only skimmed the content of those sources. My view of Rutherford's character is not as favorable as my view of Russell, Knorr, Fred Franz, and Raymond Franz. My less favorable view of Rutherford is thus far primarily due to what I have read of what he said in some of his books.
Regarding the photo of Rutherford holding a glass containing a beverage, I don't know if the beverage was wine (or other alcoholic drink), unfermented grape (or other fruit) juice, or some other dark colored nonalcoholic drink. I don't know if the photo was taken when prohibition laws were in effect or at a different time. In looking at Rutherford I can't tell whether he was drunk or not. His facial expression looks happy to me, but other than that I can't tell from the photo what Rutherford's mental state was when the photo was taken.
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Converted Greek Philosopher Explains Christianity in 125 AD
by Sea Breeze ini ran across a pretty early treatise.
we were all taught that "real" christianity was lost to history and was only restored once russell and then rutherford restored it so that the wt could be appointed as god's "mouthpiece".
but, aristides wrote to the emperor hadrian and gave a pretty good synopsis of core christian belief in 125 ad.
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Disillusioned JW
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ante-Nicene_Fathers/Volume_I/Introductory_Note_to_the_Epistles_of_Ignatius says (note, I added the bold face for emphasis):
"The following is the original Introductory Notice:—
The epistles ascribed to Ignatius have given rise to more controversy than any other documents connected with the primitive Church. As is evident to every reader on the very first glance at these writings, they contain numerous statements which bear on points of ecclesiastical order that have long divided the Christian world; and a strong temptation has thus been felt to allow some amount of prepossession to enter into the discussion of their authenticity or spuriousness. At the same time, this question has furnished a noble field for the display of learning and acuteness, and has, in the various forms under which it has been debated, given rise to not a few works of the very highest ability and scholarship. We shall present such an outline of the controversy as may enable the reader to understand its position at the present day.
There are, in all, fifteen Epistles which bear the name of Ignatius. These are the following: One to the Virgin Mary, two to the Apostle John, one to Mary of Cassobelæ, one to the Tarsians, one to the Antiochians, one to Hero, a deacon of Antioch, one to the Philippians; one to the Ephesians, one to the Magnesians, one to the Trallians, one to the Romans, one to the Philadelphians, one to the Smyrnæans, and one to Polycarp. The first three exist only in Latin: all the rest are extant also in Greek.
It is now the universal opinion of critics, that the first eight of these professedly Ignatian letters are spurious. They bear in themselves indubitable proofs of being the production of a later age than that in which Ignatius lived. Neither Eusebius nor Jerome makes the least reference to them; and they are now by common consent set aside as forgeries, which were at various dates, and to serve special purposes, put forth under the name of the celebrated Bishop of Antioch.
But after the question has been thus simplified, it still remains sufficiently complex. Of the seven Epistles which are acknowledged by Eusebius (Hist. Eccl., iii. 36), we possess two Greek recensions, a shorter and a longer. It is plain that one or other of these exhibits a corrupt text, and
scholars have for the most part agreed to accept the shorter form as representing the genuine letters of Ignatius. This was the opinion generally acquiesced in, from the time when critical editions of these Epistles began to be issued, down to our own day."https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ante-Nicene_Fathers/Volume_I/Title_Page/Preface says (note, I added the bold face for emphasis) "The American Editor has performed the humble task of ushering these works into American use, with scanty contributions of his own. Such was the understanding with the public: they were to be presented with the Edinburgh series, free from appreciable colour or alloy. His duty was (1) to give historic arrangement to the confused mass of the original series; (2) to supply, in continuity, such brief introductory notices as might slightly popularize what was apparently meant for scholars only, in the introductions of the translators; (3) to supply a few deficiencies by short notes and references; (4) to add such references to Scripture, or to authors of general repute, as might lend additional aid to students, without clogging or overlaying the comments of the translators; and (5) to note such corruptions or distortions of Patristic testimony as have been circulated, in the spirit of the forged Decretals, by those who carry on the old imposture by means essentially equivalent. Too long have they been allowed to speak to the popular mind as if the Fathers were their own; while, to every candid reader, it must be evident that, alike, the testimony, the arguments, and the silence of the Ante-Nicene writers confound all attempts to identify the ecclesiastical establishment of “the Holy Roman Empire,” with “the Holy Catholic Church” of the ancient creeds."
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Converted Greek Philosopher Explains Christianity in 125 AD
by Sea Breeze ini ran across a pretty early treatise.
we were all taught that "real" christianity was lost to history and was only restored once russell and then rutherford restored it so that the wt could be appointed as god's "mouthpiece".
but, aristides wrote to the emperor hadrian and gave a pretty good synopsis of core christian belief in 125 ad.
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Disillusioned JW
Sea Breeze, I don't think I ever came across information about the Apol. 2, Syriac before, at least one referring to Jesus as God, even though I once owned several volumes of the Ante-Nicene Fathers and read some of what was written in them about Jesus if to see if they ascribed full deity to Jesus. In those volumes I found that the earliest ones considered authentic (instead of forgeries) by the editor of the volumes did not ascribe full deity to Jesus! The editor gave a list of the documents which he said were forgeries - including many attributed to Ignatius. In the introduction to his volumes the editor said the volumes show that Jesus was not originally viewed as God (or something to that effect - I read the material more than 15 years ago and I don't remember precisely what the editor said in his introduction)!
The volumes I had of the Ante-Nicene Fathers looked like the volumes shown at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ante-Nicene_Fathers_(book)#/media/File:Church_Fathers.JPG , except that none of my volumes I had their dust jacket.
What is your source for the English translation of Apol. 2? I found a translation at https://ccel.org/ccel/aristides/apology/anf09.xiii.iii.html and that source does not say "“God came down from heaven” - unless one is making a misleading quote like the WT often does. The translation instead says "And He is acknowledged by the Holy Spirit to be the son of the most high God, who came down from heaven for the salvation of men." Your leaving out the words "the son of the most high" immediately before the word "God" made a huge difference in the meaning. The next sentence in the translation says "And being born of a pure virgin, unbegotten and immaculate, He assumed flesh and revealed himself among men that He might recall them to Himself from their wandering after many gods." Maybe where it says "unbegotten" it means unbegotten by a human father, especially since the prior sentence said "son of the most high God".
The next paragraph in the translation contains the following sentence. "For they know God, the Creator and Fashioner of all things through the only-begotten Son and the Holy Spirit4424; and beside Him they worship no other God." There it does say "beside Him they worship no other God" and some people probably interpret the word "Him" as referring to Jesus, but it could be referring to God the Father (whom the translation of the text also calls the Creator) since it mentions God before referring to God's only-begotten Son. That sentence also clarifies that Christians considered Jesus to be begotten. I think the "Him" referred to is God the Father of Jesus Christ - not Jesus Christ, and not the Holy Spirit either.
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